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tv   The Cycle  MSNBC  October 4, 2013 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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washington, republicans self-destructing and democrats sitting back and watching the show. >> i'm krystal ball and it's jobs report friday, a cycle favorite. something is missing, what is it? the jobs report. >> good one. >> i'm ari melber, after mitch mcconnell mentioned he was wearing a microphone? >> all of that plus valerie plame is with us and has written a spy novel and the plot sounds very familiar. >> good one. >> 24 hours after the capitol hill shooting and what a difference, back to business as usual for this congress, which hasn't been much business except a shutdown. on the left that's what the capitol was like yesterday after a woman rammed the white house gates and led police on a chase that ended with her being killed
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by capitol police. on right president o bam am and vice president biden walking out of the white house going to lunch. they are trying to determine what caused miriam carey to drive to d.c. with a toddler in the car and engage in capitol police. she had a history of mental illness and believed she was being stalked by the president. luke russert was on hill during the chaos and now here with the latest on the investigation. >> reporter: nbc's pete william, tour'e says this woman was a dental hygienist, 34 years old and that the doctor she originally worked for she had been fired said she suffered a fall and at that fall -- after she took time off from that fall she was never the same and he let her go because she was being too forceful with patients. she's a native of brooklyn we also learned and still unclear
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tour'e why exactly she was in washington, d.c. yesterday. from articles that have been circulated as well as our own reporting, there's no clear cut motive as to why she was in washington and led police on that scary high speed chase that she did. yesterday to recap at 2:20 p.m. this happened and she caused capitol hill police officers to open fire on her vehicle. there's been some questions as to why a woman who had an infant in her car was shot and killed by police and from conversations i've had with security officials is that after she tried to ram the white house, and then was headed towards the capitol, that sort of tipped off this fear that she could have something in the car. it could be laced with explosives and also when she started to drive erratically after the police told her to get out of the car, her car at that point became a weapon. the chief the police in d.c. said the officers who engaged their firearms acted in a heroic
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manner. overall the capitol a day later from when i spoke to you at this time yesterday is secure, safe, tourists walking in front of the mall like it never happened. and members of congress are back to sniping each other. so the one day delay is over and we're back to shutdown showdown and the house will be in this weekend to pass more piecemeal bills and there's no end in sight until october 17th which is the debt limit. guys. >> thanks for that, luke, the men and women of the capitol police protecting lawmakers might not get a paycheck because of those lawmakers. capitol police are not subject to furlough but like all essential federal workers they will not get paid until after the shutdown ends. pay day is supposed to be next friday if the ted cruz shutdown ends by next friday. what will never end is this show's love for jonathan capehart. >> amen. >> welcome again, jonathan. day four of the ted cruz
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shutdown and historically when i look back at republicans, especially over the last 40 years i marvel how loyal they are and how they have discipline and fall in line and ever since the election they've been more and more fraktous and last month or two, it's been this all-out chaos civil war like we've never seen among them. what is going on? why is the party so just fraktious at this point? >> because there no leadership. the speaker of the house, john boehner as harry reid said, is basically a nice guy but he's not leading. he's being led and not by the house majority but by a very vocal minority within his house majori majority. luke can correct me on this. between 35 and 50 very vocal tea party types, most of whom came in in the 2010 midterm
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elections, who then have a wider group of republican majority living in fear of them or the people who back them and so, speaker boehner is left with trying to hang on to his gavel as tightly as he can against a group of people who have shown time and time again they are willing to defy him no matter what he wants. >> jonathan, "time's piece hits the nail on the head. of speaker boehner's 231 allies, 205 of them are no more likely to see a serious democratic challenge than they are to see paychecks disappear in the government shutdown. isn't this the root of the problem, any sort of compromise is seen as preemptive surrender and essentially political suicide for them? >> right. there was a member of congress i believe it was congressman thomas massey, who said in a story and i wrote about this, it doesn't matter, all that matters in terms of repealing obama
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care, what my constituents want. the problem with that is when you're campaigning and your constituents are telling you what they want you to do, that's one thing. when you come to the capitol and you're faced with something that goes beyond your district but the functioning of the government, sometimes tyou have to give way to the country. when you have 200 something members who are republican safe seats, they don't have to do anything because there are no consequences for inaction. >> and you further even beyond the lines of the district, you also have a situation where the most engaged are also the most partisan. so the people calling your office are not the broad middle. they are the extreme fringe. those are the folks they are hearing from. jonathan, you've been writing about this quote from republican congressman marlo stutesman,
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we're not going to be disrespective. we have to get something out of it. i thnk we have sound of congressman. let's take a listen. >> that's a story of my life. no respect. i get no respect. >> get no respect, jonathan. >> wow. >> no respect. the thing that's so offensive about that comment, he's complaining that he and republicans haven't been respected presumably by the obama administration and president in particular. when you look at all the petty -- the slight, from the petty to the substantial that president obama has had to face since walking into the oval office in january of 2009, it's astounding. here is a man who walks into the office -- i left this out of the things that i put in of the slights, but the night he was
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inaugurat inaugurated, republican leadership types were meeting and hatching a plan that they would oppose president obama on everything, no matter what he wanted because they didn't want to give him a victory. they wanted to ensure they take back both houses of congress in 2010 and the white house in 2012. it didn't work out that way, but it set in motion a chain of really ugly events from the you lie moment at the joint session speech in 2009 to a whole host of things that i clearly don't have enough time to enumrate. >> it reminded me of the newt gingrich moment where he complained about air force one seating assignment and people saw him as a cry baby who was being disrespected and decided to shut the government down over it. >> part of what happens there and jonathan, you understand this as an embedded member of the washington media, the narrative matter a tremendous
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amount. when you look what happened with newt, he became the face of an unreasonable opposition and that's how the shutdown was ultimately resolved. if this is a boxing match, it won't be resolved by a knockout punch. we're in a place where the referees matter and they are counting it up. on our show we've been talking about how the referees in the press have been telling the accurate story about the fact that as harry reid said, giving into the republican sequester cuts is one of the biggest compromises and sacrifices he's made in 31 years and the president fought the tea party tooth and nail but the so-called clean cr is the republican spending plan. they won. they won the compromise. people who don't follow this all the time and don't know the president the way you do jonathan capehart -- >> nice, i like that. >> when the rest of the country looks, they say what's the story and tell us about that piece of it because it is a participant
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in this debate whether we like it or not. >> right, look, this isn't a situation where oh, both sides do it and both sides are to blame. >> thank you. >> ari, you just put it out there one of the problems the president had with his base, they thought he always compromises and hands over things too early. always giving things to the republicans. and they thought for sure he would cave once again when it came to either the fund delay repeal obama care nonsense coming out of the gop house and also on the debt ceiling. what you're seeing in terms of the unity behind the president, they are finally seeing, the president is not budging on this because as you laid out, he has compromised a lot. >> yep. >> chris hayes had that great chart showing the president's budget spending plan was at
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1.something trillion dollars and the senate continuing resolution that passed out of the senate is what, $986 billion? >> very close to the paul ryan budget. >> exactly. so republicans are still complaining that they haven't gotten what they want, that they haven't gotten enough concess n concessions? with that, there's no pleasing them. >> it sort of comes down to what chris matthews said, he's not going to give up his baby. >> let me tell folks why you were here today is it because you're a pull itser prize winning columnist at the "washington post"? no, an intern when you were a baby and he was running the "today" show and nightly news? >> no. it's because of what happened on saturday. >> for the democratic national committee on tuesday night, president obama said who has quote, the same hair do i had in 1978? >> jonathan.
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>> tour'e. >> it is not tour'e. but he would be flattered to know you thought of him. >> the correct answer is de blasio. >> i have to confess my afro was never that good. >> jonathan negative 100, anna marie, 100. the u.s. postal service announced plans to raise the cost of a first class stamp from 46 cents to what? >> jonathan for the win. >> 49 cents. >> is correct and jonathan capehart on the list, has stormed from behind defeat. anna marie cox, 500-400. >> i was indeed flattered you mentioned me and proud you one up against the clock. joining our own krystal ball and molly ball in the winner's circle. john is the first nonball to win. you got an appearance on "the
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cycle". >> it's great, it's always to be orn "the cycle" and always great to be the fifth wheel. >> of course because you won you get to be on "the cycle." we have a one question game show to play, dante or tour'e. your question for all of the prizes, which there are none. who has the better afro, dante or tour'e? >> are you showing a picture? there's a long delay. >> without question dante? >> that's correct. that's correct. you got that right. >> is that really you on the left? >> yeah, that was me. >> on saturday contestants -- >> the 60s were a long time ago. >> michael steele -- jonathan, victoria defran chess co-soto -- >> burn burn burn. >> ari will not be there or
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here. believe it or not even what we just did, we'll be back with more of "the cycle." mom, dad told me that cheerios is good for your heart, is that true? says here that cheerios has whole grain oats that can help remove some cholesterol, and that's heart healthy. ♪ [ dad ] jan? ♪ have hail damage to both their cars. ted ted is trying to get a hold of his insurance agent. maxwell is not. he's on geico.com setting up an appointment with an adjuster. ted is now on hold with his insurance company. maxwell is not and just confirmed a 5:30 time for tuesday. ted, is still waiting. yes! maxwell is out and about... with ted's now ex-girlfriend. wheeeee! whoo! later ted! online claims appointments. just a click away on geico.com.
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all of you "cycle" fans know it's the first friday of the month, jobs report friday. no jobs numbers, why? the shutdown. the people who compile and release the numbers also are not working. we'll bring in our dynamic duo
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because at the heart of this is the economy. first of all, what on earth did you do this morning with no job numbers to pore over, did you sleep in? >> i didn't know what to do. my sir okayed yan rhythms are completely thrown off. >> it's a sad day. >> peter you look sad. >> i was sad not to have jobs numbers, i'm an economist, my life revolves around numbers. i wrote an op-ed. >> you're never one to shy from voicing your opinion and you have found a solution and you say to resolve the funding crisis the president should agree to delay the individual mandate for a year, for its part the tea party must let go of free market fantasies. i admire your optimism, the reality democrats have made it clear obama care will not be part of any deal. not only is this not a reality, i would argue it's not in the best interest of republicans. >> actually, i think it would be in the best interest of the
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people that have to sign up for insurance because the exchanges would be there. they are not working as well as we like. and that by delaying the mandate a year there will be a lot less frustration when people have difficulties with the exchanges because they won't be facing penalties. quite with regard regard to exchanges is the issue of people with moderate incomes into the exchanges and so forth. there are considerable challenges in that area. i think this would play into the president's hand about making obama care pore pal atable and popular. >> part of why the exchanges are not working because there's a demand that the white house never imagined for people to sign up. the idea of pushing them back when america is dying to get in the exchanges seems counter intuitive. i want to look ahead to the next thing with you. they are talking about a debt ceiling default. just the threat of the debt ceiling default is enough to screw up the global economy,
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correct? >> right. the last time we nudged up to this idea, those who are lending us money buying our bonds, insisted on what's called a risk premium. if the person to whom you're lending, if you're a borrower, is suspicious in terms of payback, you have to insist on a risk premium which makes the interest rates or yields higher and makes borrowing more expensive. actually, if you look carefully into the bond data which we love to do around here, you can find the beginning of some yield spikes on the shortest term interest rates, the one month treasury bills. even having this conversation, is economically a bad idea. but breaching the debt ceiling, that is recessionary. >> to jared's point there's a new treasury report out that is quite dire. the fact of the matter is breaching the debt ceiling is totally uncharted territory. so we have no idea it's
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uncharted and incredibly dangerous. the treasury report says there migtd be a financial crisis and recession that could echo 2008 or worse. >> i don't believe we have to default on our debt if we do not raise the debt ceiling. my feeling is the government still be taking in taxes and 80% of the revenue it needs to meet -- >> hasn't the administration said we're talking millions of payments that they have no way, no mechanism by which they can prioritize those payments. >> if we can run world war ii, they can prioritize the payments. you have to do it before october 17th. and with the treasury doesn't tell us what the backup plan would be. i'm not saying they have a backup plan. i'm saying they should have one. that's not to relief the republicans of responsibility to cooperate with the president and we can debate on who is compromising and who's not. it doesn't have to be. the revenues are there to deal with this and the question is
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will they. in regard to what jared said, bond yields overall at a very low level. however, insurance cost, that has spiked. >> right. >> i want to be -- i wasn't exactly sure what peter was saying there, but if he's saying that somehow we can prioritize our payments and not default, i would very strongly disagree with that. the and of course, during world war ii we didn't default, we never went over the debt ceiling because once you go over congress simply can't borrow. we borrowed a lot but did so lifting debt ceiling to meet the crisis. if you start saying i'll pay this creditor or won't pay that creditor or all of my creditors but won't pay the military or social security beneficiaries that's default by another name. prit orization is not a way out. >> if you prioritize and pay interest on the bonds, you can roll over the bonds that come due and if you cut back by 25%
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spending in other areas, that is not default in the bond market. you might think it's default on the commitment to taxpayers and it is -- >> it's also -- you're also stiffing contractors, for example, that once you break a contract you're defaulting. i don't think it's even worth going there. if you're trying to find ways out of this that involve going over the debt ceiling, i would strongly encourage you to look elsewhere. >> certainly we want to find a way out. >> we can all agree on that one. >> i think it's an important debate you're having. what peter seems to be alluding to having a default by another name that sounds less threatening. that may be helpful to some republicans in the short term. what we're hearing from independent economists and wall street itself is that is not a viable option for a financial market and not a viable option for an economic system when we benchmarked so much based on treasuries and not a viable
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option to turn into argentina by choice of political dysfunction. that goes -- holds on, you went back and forth. let me finish. we'll get back to you. i that is the counter argument, to get both of you responding to that, krystal and i we're reading the report from the treasury department tells a story from 2011 that tells us we've already come way too close, small business, consumer confidence crashing from as we discuss going near the line. >> let me say, i don't know if peter is advocating some sort of prioritization, which i consider a default, but i -- if so, he's kind of in a camp by himself there. i have to say, even john boehner yesterday said in a way that sounded sort of sincere to me, like, i don't want to default either. so he raised the possibility that if it comes to it, he'll use democratic votes to avoid not raising the debt ceiling, in
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other words to avoid default. i would add on your list of all of the people who recognize that prioritization is default and default is default, we have to raise the debt ceiling, i would put john boehner on that list, i think. >> peter? >> as far as -- i'm not advocating we go back october 17th and use this backup plan. i'm saying it is possible to pay the bond holders so you don't have a technical default and haven't violated the covenantses and bonds. however, the notion that the united states is another argentina is absolutely ludicrous. we have a capacity to print the dollars that are necessary to ultimately service the debt. and nobody honestly thinks that 90 days from now u.s. debt is not going to be serviceable the way it is for greek debtor the way it was with argentina and so forth. we are in a different position. the treasury report is not developful this this situation because it looks at the last shutdown. we have never pierced a debt ceiling quite in this way. and faced --
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>> i think that's the point. it's very dangerous and uncharted territory. >> absolutely dangerous. >> we've been hard on you, peter, we'll let you have the last word and maybe we'll see you when the shutdown is over and the job numbers finally come out. for now the house plans to be in session tomorrow for votes on another round of many funding bills. john boehner an harry reid and nancy pelosi faced the cameras after the meeting with the president but mitch mcconnell snuck out the back door. who do you think made the right move? daniel puckett said mitch is a coward, he cannot be seen going either way or he'll lose his party. no guts, no glory, right on, james. make sure you like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. use the hash tag don't shut me down. more shutdown for sure. but first the answer to a question we've been asking all week, is there still a soup of
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the day? >> chuck, it's the white house soup of the day and by the way, it's going to be a re-run, it's turkey chili and the white house confirms it will be turkey chili until the shutdown is over. when our little girl was born, we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the two-thousand-fourteen subaru forester. (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
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wout of landfills each year? plastic waste to cover mt. rainier by using one less trash bag each month, we can. and glad forceflex bags stretch until they're full.* so you can take them out less often.
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sex, lies and baseball. a-rod is suing the mlb and the commissioner saying they are trying to destroy his reputation and career. he is fighting a 211 game suspension for his alleged association with performance-enhancing drugs. it also claims an mlb investigator had an inappropriate sexual relationship with a witness he identified about the lab tied to peds. let's hand it over to ari. >> thanks, krystal. it's going to be a wet weekend
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for people along the gulf. tropical storm karen will be the first named storm of this unusually quiet season. a hurricane watch stretches from louisiana east of pensacola and the storm is expected to hit early sunday morning and that is your news and weather and now back to this week's political storm in the spin cycle. shutdown week is featured a lot of talk and a lot less truth. when two top republicans senators thought they were off camera waiting for tv interviews on hill. a camera did catch them in real talk. >> i'm all wired up here. >> i didn't see an end. i go over and over again. we're willing to compromise and willing to negotiate. i don't think they -- i think it's awful for them to say that over and over again. >> i do too. i just came back from a two-hour meeting with them and that was basically the same view. >> i think if we keep saying we want to defund it and fought for that but now we're riling to
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compromise on this, i think -- i know we don't want to be here, but we're going to win this i think. >> that was a brief but pretty remarkable exchange. we'll break it down in the spin. you're seeing kentucky's two senators, mitch mcconnell and rand paul the more popular libertarian. mcconnell originally fought against rand paul. now they work together. a lot of the politics are from the pauls and cruzes and tea party and anyone else. you see them coming together there. mcconnell saying i came back from the meeting and this is when the democrats are saying, they won't go negotiate anymore is a good message. >> a moment of truth. >> that the republicans are thinking they are bad messaging for the dems, if the dems don't get out there and talk about compromise because as a word it's popular, they'll be in trouble as if the country can't follow the fact this is as we've been reporting already republican budget -- >> a lot of the country cannot
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follow it and understand it. and look at it well the democrats aren't compromising, they are not negotiating. we hear it all the time when we step out of this world where people are focusing on it. another amazing thing that came out of this week, the senator's anonymously talking about what happened at the ted cruz luncheon. he has no strategy, he has no end game. they called him a snake oil salesman and it is bizarre they were led down this path of political terrorism right by a freshman. >> i hate that word terrorism, i don't think that's appropriate. >> they were led down this road by a freshman, who they barely know. why do they do this? what is the thing all congress people spend most of the day doing? >> fundraising. >> and they are raising tons of money off the jim demint senate conservative fund, $1.5 million in august raised based on this. >> when we talk about the tea party lawmakers, the goal is not
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to broaden the appeal of the republican party, it's to help win their own elections. and if boehner, as he suggested, that this mess will come to an end potentially at the debt ceiling, you have to ask the question, what has this game of hot potato won the lawmakers? it has only further divided the republican party. they have taken on a majority of the blame, all of the expense of the american people. >> here's to me what has happened. the republican party after 2012, they tried a little bit to remake themselves with immigration reform and rnc autopsy report. they couldn't do it because they fed their base this right wing red meat rhetoric for so long they couldn't walk it back. so since they can't win playing by the rules they've decided to abandon the rules. wrote about this for our website and i think it's incredibly dangerous what they are doing. they are fundamentally threatening the balance of power set up by our framers. >> i read your piece today.
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it is very interesting, people can find at the cycle at msnbc.com. the president has a veto, congress doesn't have a veto. you ran on the tea party in the constitution, why don't you try reading it? valerie plame is out with a new novel about a female spy at the dangerous intersection of sex, politics and a word abby doesn't like, terrorism. valerie plame will tell us all about it next. [ cheering ]
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with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. i get death threats every day. i went to the agency and requested security to protect my family and i was declined because my circumstances fall outside budget protocols. if this is a knife fight, sir, right now we're fighting it alone. >> they say the best art mimics life for valerie plame the truth
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was actually scarier than fiction. her story of betrayal by the bush white house in july 2003, her identity was blown in the scooter libby case. patrick fitzgerald said the goal of leaking her identity was to discredit or punish or seek revenge against her husband, joseph wilson, who publicly accused the white house of manipulating intelligence to support the iraq invasion. but that was a decade ago. now plame is building off her cia career, she is also authored another book, this one a novel, blowback, the first in a suspension stories about vanessa peerson. valerie is in our guest spot today. thank you for being with us. let's start about the new book. your life has certainly had enough twists and turns to be a spy novel. are there parallels to your real life in this novel? >> of course. thank you for having me.
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the spy thriller is definitely informed by my experiences in the cia. and i got so tired of seeing female cia officers, intelligence officers depicted in what i thought were shallow ways. so i wanted to have a main figure who was much more realistic and entertaining. >> i believe that. >> you hate the fact that cia operatives today and pop culture are portrayed as cartoonists and only succeed by giving sexual favors and accomplished gun play. could this be what you're referring to? >> we've got to hop to and haul as. they have to understand. always towards purple, methodical, meaningful and momentous and -- >> i'm going to get you a bit more ativan. >> i don't know if you're a fan of homeland or not, how long
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would gary last? >> not very long. you think someone might notice she's not terribly well balanced. it's compelling tv and clair dane is wonderful. notice she doesn't have friends and listens to a lot of jazz. >> whoa. >> what's wrong with listening to jazz, valerie? i love jazz. >> jazz is great. i don't have a lot of friends, what's the big deal? >> it doesn't make for really good intelligence gathering capabilities. >> i understand what you're saying. for years you were hiding in plain sight with this cover story then suddenly you're out as a cia operative and become famous in the process. i want to know the impact it has, the looking glass the way the world sees you has a deep impact how you see yourself. when you have this moment, the way the world sees you suddenly changes, how does that impact how you see yourself?
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>> when i look back, i realize that it really took me a few years to come to terms with what had happened, that i was very suddenly went from being a private person where discretion was para mount to being a much more public person. it took me a while to come to terms with that and what that meant. and of course, the career i loved was gone. >> and it was gone in part because these senior government officials at the time, set forth a series of events that disclosed your identity. i wonder if you could contrast that or tell us your thoughts on pt other unauthorized disclos e disclosures, from either junior people and those trying to expose what they thought was wrong doing but also released a lot of information? >> indeed. i've been following especially the revelations about nsa from snowden very carefully. as they continue to roll out and
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what does this really mean? i'm glad president obama had said we really need to have a national conversation on this, the balance between security and privacy. and just the most recent revelations are that the nsa is looking ats social networks as well. to me none of that was particularly surprising, but the extent of it, and of course, how much that we know now is conducted, decisions are made by the fisa secret courts i find distressing. we need to understand what the possible consequences are of such extensive government technology and intrusion in our lives. >> such a great point. the book is "blowback", thanks forgiving the world a realistic heroine. >> thank you for having me. >> no secret here. there's more "cycle" after this. lyrics: 'take on me...' ♪
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♪ because an empty pan is a blank canvas. ♪ [ woman #2 ] to share a moment. ♪ [ man #1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman #3 ] to show my love. ♪ [ woman #4 ] because life needs flavor. ♪ [ woman #5 ] to travel the world without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish. make it delicious with swanson. [ woman #1 ] that's why i cook. one of the most infamous and controversial and misunderstood moments in philadelphia, a moment that continues to haunts the city happened in 1985 when a decade long battle culminated in the police dropping a bomb on the rowhouse owned by a black nationalist group called move. 11 members died including five children. >> did you consider the move organization to be a terrorist group? >> people threatened to shoot
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and kill neighbors and police, i think that's a pretty adequate description of the word terrorist. >> where is it written we could not have a religion of our own. >> the system had one intention, to either kill move people or to put us in prison as long as possible. it's just that simple. >> more three dozen philadelphia policemen surrounded the building after a move member was seen in a hooded mask and carrying a shotgun. >> we will do it by any means necessary. >> there has just been a huge explosion here. we don't know what it means but it shook the whole -- >> those people died in part because after the bomb was dropped the fire department which was on the scene made no effort to douse the flames, hence the name of a gripping new documentary about all of this called "let the fire burn." the film's director is jason os der, the lone child survivor of the burning, bernie africa, died in late september at just 41
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years old. jason, let's talk about what happened to move and msnbc viewers will note we saw a younger ed rendell, the da of philadelphia. why was there this clash between move and the police who were ultimately found negligent? was it religious intolerance, the move folks were baiting the police in a bit too much? what was the basis for the clash? >> yeah, thanks for having me. i think there were a lot of factors, you have to understand that the conflict between move and city of philadelphia, the police, bubbled up over a number of years, over a decade actually. during that period there was more than one altercation, there was the first deadly conflict happened in 1978. and then a police officer was killed in that conflict and nine move members that came to be known as the move nine were incarcerated for 30 years to
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life. when you eseptemberer the secon confrontati confrontation, they are in a neighborhood made up of rowhouses and they each feel they are the wounded party. as they go into round violent altercation. and, in fact, it does go trag tragically out of control. >> and, jason, i knew of this incident, but i confess, i didn't know the details. a lot of the people i spoke with didn't know the details. and i was blown away by the fact that you had 13 individuals in this house, only seven adults, six children. and they dropped a bomb on it. they used over 10,000 rounds of ammunition that day. and they let this fire burn, which ultimately destroyed 61 homes. i mean, to me, it is absolutely mind-blowing this actually happened. why do you think that people don't already know more of the details of this story? >> yeah. thank you. i think there's a number of reasons and certainly when you make a documentary film, one of
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the things you're looking for is sort of that piece of history that when you learn it and learn it in detail, it seems how did i not know that? we should know that as americans and i would agree with that sentiment. the reasons why it's not known, i think it's complicated. but i think one of them is that it's a very racially-charged story, but yet also very, very complicated. and i think historically, our media has not always done a good job telling stories that involve race and other factors. and are really truly complicated and i think at the time the national black leadership had trouble knowing what to do with this story. and one reason that things stay in the media is if there is a political constituency that keeps it there. and that was just not the case. there was no one to stand up for these people, because their image or lifestyle was too problematic. i think those are some of the reasons. but it's really complicated. >> well, and jason, this was in many ways a product of the time people were so fearful of urban crime back then. could you ever see something like this, something as horrific
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as this happening today? >> yeah. i mean, again, it depends how you look at it. i think we're unlikely to see an urban police force in the united states take this type of violent action. i think some of the things in play at that time -- for one thing, i think just the public relations of it all. someone would get in the way of that, i think, these days, with the type of coverage we have. but also i think we were at a period where police forces were becoming more militaryized, but they didn't necessarily have the tools or safeguards on that. that all being said, i think if you take a step back and look at it more widely and ask where are people having violence done to them without regard to their humanity, were children being sacrificed for the belief of adults, you take a step back and look at the world political scene. i think we do find echos of this, and things that are in some ways similar that still do go on today. but probably not an urban domestic police force. >> yeah. i mean, you think about why this didn't become a larger story. people talk about the model victim, when you have a victim who just seems perfect and is
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unassailable. that sort of situation. this was not a perfect model, but it was a very difficult situation. jason, thank you so much. incredible film. still ahead, my rant about the ted cruz shutdown. might be fun. ♪ just keeps on trying ♪ and he smiles when he feels like crying ♪ ♪ on and on want to give your family more vitamins, omega 3s,
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destructive behavior is usually accompanied by an enabler. the enabler, for the ted cruz republicans running the ted cruz shutdown are the voters at home who those elected officials know will not punish their bad
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behavior, just like bad parents don't punish. as tom friedman said this week, they personally will not be politically punished and may, in fact, be rewarded. those folks live in a world that's been gerrymandered into districts that are far whiter and far less urban than america actually is because america is growing more and more diverse. in those districts, obama lost to romney in a landslide. they live here, in those red areas denoting the districts of the 80 house members who compromise what's been called the suicide caucus. that's in red there. half are in the south, a quarter in the midwest. this is red state america. and they are pursuing a course that is damaging the country. but, hey, it's popular at home. charlie cook asked, by drawing themselves into safe lilly-white strong holds, have republicans boxed themselves into an alternate universe that bears little resemblance to the rest of the country? the answer, charlie, is yes. and that demographic sameness is reinforcing a philosophy undergirded by a narcissistic
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self centeredness. people who see the world filled with makers and takers and useless eaters, buy into the fantasy of building it yourself without any help, direct or indirect from the government who think you can be part of a nation without being part of the community of that nation. who think if you're poor, it's because you made bad choices and you deserve no help. and if you're rich, it's because you made good choices and you deserve rewards. so, of course, this group voted against food stamps and opposed raising the minimum wage, but repeatedly voted for cutting capital gains taxes. they're against aid for people hurt in hurricane sandy and immigration reform and voting rights and marriage equality and health insurance for the working poor, as if they can wall themselves off from real america and put themselves back in some rockwellian fantasy of america that is long fast and perhaps never even existed. their philosophy and tactics reveal a fundamental lack of empathy for those who are not like them, and those who are not successful. the philosophy is against helping others, which is a bedrock of community. there is a direct line linking
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reagan's railing against welfare queens could romney really against takers to today's obama care war and when your policies are anti communal and anti empathetic, why would your tactics show a respect for the community? why not take hostages. the spoils of the 2010 victory led republicans to create for themselves a world that is so fundamentally unlike the real america that they do live in an alternate universe. i want obama and the dems to go on refusing to negotiate with these political terrorists on the far right and i say negotiate with quotes, because there is no real negotiation being proposed. the ted cruz republicans created this with no strategy and an unachievable goal s and the president and the dems should not give in. wait until boehner crawls back, regularing for relief from the suicide caucus. teach them a lesson and make it painful, because the folks at home aren't going to punish them. and what's at stake is not merely obama care. it's the american way of governing.
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that does it for "the cycle." martin bashir, your turn. >> thank you. good afternoon. it's friday, october the 4th. and what's your game, speaker boehner? the longer this goes on, the worse it will be. >> the "wall street journal" says we don't care how long this lasts, because we're winning. >> he doesn't want to anger the extremists in his party. >> this isn't some damn game. >> it's about trying to do what's right for the whole country. >> the fate of john boehner. >> it feels like he's juggling chainsaws here. >> our goal was to bring fairness to the american people. >> how are you picking and choosing? >> i don't care how many folks dress up in halloween doctor suits. >> michele bachmann gleefully said -- >> this is about the happiest i've seen members. >> no, no, that's not true. that is not true. >> don't you guys hate it when you get talking on a live mic? >> i'm wired up here. >> he's going over

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